My 6 year old daughter has just completed a 6 month foundation course of Jeet Kun Do and attained her orange belt on saturday.My wife and i were told she is ready to step up to a 3 year masters class to attain her black belt.Although i am really pleased with her progress and attitude to martial arts the fees for the course seem a little excessive,can someone tell me if i am right or is this about average:
£290 flat fee+36 months@£69 per month.
The school is in Birmingham and she can attend up to 4 classes per week at 45 minutes per class.
Martial arts fees?
For one thing, that is really expensive. $580.00 and $140.00 per month? Plus, she is 6 years old and will have a black belt in JKT, at the age of 9?
Aside from the prices JKD is a philosophy, not a style, unless the instructor was a direct student of Bruce Lee. In my opinion, you are visiting what most of us call a McDojo. I would find a new school in a recognized style where you do not have to sign any sort of long term contract at all. 45 minute classes are also suspect. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but everything you have said about this school sounds terrible, except for the part about your daughter enjoying it.
Reply:Thta's a lot. I am learning Taekwon Do and for a child its £5 per hour or £30 per month and you can attend 8 classes.
Reply:Wow! I paid £5 a week. You are paying a heck of a lot.
Reply:hey that store is a rip of find another one OK so you can pay like 5 euros or some thing
Reply:Firstly congratulations to your daughter for getting her orange belt! Its lovely to see kids enjoying martials arts.
I do martial arts and the fees for kids are £4.50 for 1.5 hrs - paid termly, which is 4 weeks based on once a week attendance. If you do extra sessions you pay extra.
The fees do sound about right, although having a flat fee where you can attend up to 4 times per week strikes me more as a business venture than keeping kids interested. How many kids actually attend more than 3 times a week? The problem with kids classes is that kids tend to stop training around the ages of 9-12years, so retention can be an issue for the instructor.
What you need to think about is what do they offer and how often is your daughter likely to attend - if she loves going 3-4 times a weeks then thats great.
What happens onces she gets her black belt? Do they have a structured syllabus for Dan grades to keep them interested and developing their skills?
Bearing in mind your daughter is school age, she is likely to have school commitments which may keep her away from training. Do you want that financial commitment? And would your daughter always want to attend JKD class?
Check out the background of the club - experiences of intructors, how many high grades attend regularly, which association are they part off? It can give you an idea.
I must admit that a Masters Class for a 6year old seems to me a bit extreme, and a long commitment for both of you. If she is enjoying it, why not just let her enjoy it?
She can always try out other martial arts - karate, jujitsu, judo etc - and maybe then decide for herself which one she wants to commit to.
Part of the fun of any martial arts is learning new things - and kids are like sponges with new info!
Don't feel pressured into any financial/ time commitments - its martial art and your daughter is free to try new things if she wants. If she wants to stay, then good on her.
Hope this helps - all the best
Reply:Don't sign a contract for more than 6 months with a child that young. Even if she sticks with it all the way, you'll be doing yourself a huge favor by not signing the contract. If they force the issue, they're out for the money and not to teach your child.
That is one of the reasons I stopped offering contracts.
Reply:Jeet kune do, does not use a belt system. I am sad to say you are being scammed.
Reply:Along with some of the good comments that others have already put down I will also add this. Many good schools and instructors have gone out of business over the years because they did not or could not run their schools like a business. While the fees seem exorbitant don't be surprised if you find this type of arrangement or contract structure again. It is one of the things that ensures that a client will be there and continue to come over a period of time but some have taken it to a level of greed which seems like the case here. Look for a school that is not so pricey, has shorter term contracts or consider a school that does not have contracts at all and also look at the hidden costs like testing fees, registration fees, equipment fees and then make your decision.
Reply:hate to say it but these practices smell a lot like mcdojo to me
Reply:I don't know the exchange rate exactly but I believe that is close to $200 US. Wow that is a lot. I wouldn't lock in to a contract ever. We here in our school Run less than $100 a month on a month to month agreement. Our masters certificate was singed by Bruce Lee's instructor. William Chung.
Reply:The answer to your question is really a product of perception and value for investment.
Most schools that have a "black belt program" or something similar offer you a discount on the project annual costs if the student remained for the same duration of time without signing up for the program i.e. $100/year for 3 years but our BBP will give you three years for only $250. This does two things for the school, it normally ties you legally to a contact to pay whether the student completes the three years or not whcih is good for the school. It also helps to encourage students to actually continue training, especially into the intermeidate and advanced ranks which can be challenging times mentally, spiritually, an emotionally. Most schools lose the bulk of their students in years two to four, so such incentives sometimes help retention.
You need therefore to ask yourself some serious questions in order to decide whether or not this is reasonable or not.
1) Does the school guarantee a black belt at the end of the 3 years? No-one can really do this as three years is a lifetime for a 6 year old kid. If they suggest they will do all they can to prepare your daughter - that is reasonable. If they guarantee the belt after three years, that is inappropriate and unethical.
2) Does the program provide a discount over the three years, on what the costs would be for three years of tuition if your daughter was not on the program? If so, then it may be financially worthwhile, but you have to seriously weight the risk of your daughter losing interest and refusing to go to classes in the next year or two. This happens frequently. If you believe your daughter is committed and will stick it out irrespective, then such a discount may be very worthwhile.
3) Do you like, trust, and respect the instructor who is teaching your child? If you do, how much monetary value can you truly put on that. Martial arts training can be a significanlty contributory factor in a childs life and development, and the instructor/s can assist you (the parent) in helping with your childs development and growth in so many ways. If you have found someone you like, trust, and respect, perhaps supporting their school and helping them make ends meet by making a longer term committment is very much in your daughters best interests.
There are many factors to weigh in deciding if such programs are right for you and your daughter. I am always cautious about recommending a 3 or 4 year agreement for anyone under 18, unless you have an ability to provide say two or three months advance notice of cancellation to stop the agreement at any time. Kids and teenagers are just too picky and fickle. There are too many new interests that appear and old interests that waine to be able to guarantee such a long term committment.
Don't listen to those who immeidately decide that your instructor is running a McDojo simply because he has some long term tuition programs that help him and you. The choice is always the students to select or reject such programs. I would worry much more about a school that forgets to ask for tuition or does not have tuition schedules clearly discussed and printed for your review and consideration. Good business practices help keep schools open and teaching.
That said, there are places out there that will try to commit a six year old to a three year binding contract that will not provide any flexibility or escape clause. Those I would see as disreputable and problematic.
Good luck, and I hope your daughter is able to continue her journey for years and years to come.
Ken C
9th Dan HapMoosaKi-Do
8th Dan TaeKwon-Do
7th Dan YongChul-Do
Reply:i would find a new school
she is 6 and will have her BB at age 9 c'mon the school is a rip off or McDojo
i would worry more on technique then belts/rank rank doesnt save you on the street were as technique does
Reply:I train in Shotokan so I cant say I know what the cost are for other Martial Arts. But to me that is rather expensive. I pay £2.50 for two hours training on a monday and the £4 for 4 hours split between wednesday and friday.
Reply:nah thats a load of crap i wouldnt do that system of martial art they just want your money
Reply:Is she in training for the olympics ?
If not, you are paying too much.
Look for another school, shop around a bit first, sit in on classes and talk to other parents, you'll soon get the rundown on whether everyone is happy.
Before you send your daughter to a new school, be sure that the instructor has the correct accreditation (for your country) to work with children. In Australia it's a blue card, not sure what it is anywhere else.
She'll settle in quickly, so don't stress about her reaction. Change makes children adaptable.
Reply:I am appalled at this for two reasons. Firstly the costs are excessive. Me and my two sons train with one of the best karate instructors in the UK and we pay £40/month (2 x 2 hour classes per week with extra classes available for £5 ) for all three of us. Two of us are already Dan Grades. We do not have a contract and can stop at any time without penalty. We also have access to courses with senior Japanese Karateka for less than what you are being asked to stump up. We have been associated with this guy for over 10 years. He thinks of karate first and money second. There is no way costs like this can be justified for a 6 year old.
Secondly, Martial Arts is a personal journey and putting a timescale on achieving a black belt if you pay a certain amount of money is at the very least misguided and at it's worst unethical. I personally do not think nearly £3000 for a black belt for a 9 year old is value for money.
It is obvious that the people running this school (I prefer to use the word club, but this does not appear to be a club) are trying to make a living from it but please be aware that there are a lot of people in Martial Arts circles who are very gifted and fantastic teachers who do it because they love what they are doing and as a consequence do not charge exhorbitant fees.
Lastly do not let your well placed pride in your little girls achievement sucker you into parting with your hard earned cash in this way. Birmingham is a big city and as such will have a lot of opportunities to learn Martial arts.
ps Surely having a Black Belt in Jeet Kune Do goes against the whole philosophy of an art that continually changes and is meant to be moulded to the individual rather than a rigid set of guidelines that most other traditional martial arts have.
Reply:Avoid long term contracts at that age. She if your local schools offers any classes this may bring the price down.
Reply:That seems a bit much to me. I train 2-3 times per week and pay £2.50 per session, and £21 per year for my licence.
Reply:the first thing to consider is how often you would attend.
4 classes a week is about 18 a month. so your paying about £4 a class if you attend everytime... plus the flat fee...which comes out at about 100 a year or 2 pounds a week. To be honest this is about average for a class... however i wouldnt recommend training so much at such a young age.
i would check out the club, see what you can find out about it...
Rememebr if your daughter were to give up you would lose all the flat fee i assume...
also bear in mind that classes for such young children might not be teaching them real jeet Kune Do... i always think childrens classes dont count for much in terms of fighting... but can be good for other reasons of course
Reply:At present, I pay £2.50 per lesson which lasts 2 hours, twice a week, for karate.
We also have Japanese instructors coming over for seminars, extra lessons etc.
I also practise iaido and the cost of the hall is covered by us students paying £10 a month for the privilege.
P.S. if the instructor has a personalised license plate, run for it!
Reply:Personally, I stay away from any school that has a set timetable to achieve a rank.
The fact that each person progresses at his/her own individual pace makes me wonder how anyone can say, "With our 1 year program, your kid will be ___ belt."
I've seen black belts that were sloppy with their techniques.
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